Duel Board - Free multiplayer online games

Duel Board => Suggestions / Game rules => Topic started by: jamesishere on March 27, 2005, 06:51:42 AM

Title: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: jamesishere on March 27, 2005, 06:51:42 AM
The fire spreads way too quickly. If I remember correctly, it took a few turns before the fire would even spread one square, and it would be a long time before it would cover up a substantial portion of the game. I realize that there is some sort of chance of the fire spreading each turn (probably 50%), but it needs to be reduced.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: ZAPTONE_Z on March 27, 2005, 08:07:14 AM
it seems pretty decent to me

cant think of any time ive seen it get too out of hand too fast
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: Odin on March 27, 2005, 08:32:51 AM
I have only played three or four games with it (one of which was when Fire was first introduced and then pulled for a little while), but Fire seems to move at a reasonable speed.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: matlu on March 27, 2005, 12:56:21 PM
Here is how fire exactly works (currently):

- At the end of each beam-down phase, do following for EACH field with fire on the board:
- generate random number in range 1-12. (I will reffer to this number as "R")
- *IF*  R >= 1 AND R <= 7  than fire spreads to some adjacent field (there are 7 adjacent fields) . If it's not possible for some reason (there is 'friendly' monster, or building, or the field is out of board) than do nothing
- *IF*  R = 8  then this fire cell dies out
- *IF* any other number, then do nothing

- there is special check, to prevent the fire from dying out completely

It is clear, that fire speed is heavily influented by this random number range (1-12). I experimented with it a bit, but this speed seemed to me best.

Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: matlu on April 05, 2005, 11:55:09 PM
I saw several games, which resulted in draw, due to fire. I'm starting to think, that something has to be done about the fire...

I think that I should either:
1. make it slower
2. let it die out after some time
3. let it hurt also its creator

Right now I like 3rd possibility most (it's easiest to do, should solve the problem, and seems logical)
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: BlitzJoker on April 06, 2005, 12:38:28 AM
I would say choice two. Because the only time fire would burn out would be when its taking up like 25% of the board+(I suppose you would make it that high), because then it will keep it from making the game a draw because of fire.

The reason being is that if you allow it to hurt its creator it makes fire less usefull....it will also change some strategy.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: ZAPTONE_Z on April 06, 2005, 01:47:32 AM
Quote from: matlu on April 05, 2005, 11:55:09 PM

3. let it hurt also its creator

Right now I like 3rd possibility most (it's easiest to do, should solve the problem, and seems logical)

as much as i hate to say it....i think this is the best move
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: ZAPTONE_Z on April 06, 2005, 06:09:11 AM
Quote from: ZAPTONE_Z on April 06, 2005, 01:47:32 AM
as much as i hate to say it....i think this is the best move

quoting myself here (highclass)

of course this isnt the way original cw had it but i know matlu isnt trying to make a clone of that, just pointing this out

the current fire system seems to be pretty much similar to old cw and that worked pretty fine back then

so maybe just wait before any changes are made?
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: bbob_baller on April 06, 2005, 03:29:45 PM
i have to agree i think hurting its fire starter is a good solution or making it die out.. :-\

Quote from: matlu on April 05, 2005, 11:55:09 PM
I saw several games, which resulted in draw, due to fire. I'm starting to think, that something has to be done about the fire...

I think that I should either:
1. make it slower
2. let it die out after some time
3. let it hurt also its creator

Right now I like 3rd possibility most (it's easiest to do, should solve the problem, and seems logical)
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: BladeSabre on April 06, 2005, 07:39:00 PM
I think it would help to make each cell more likely to die out. Even if the fire is still growing, on average, then there could be a chance of passages appearing through it.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: matlu on April 07, 2005, 11:19:52 AM
Quote from: blade_sabre on April 06, 2005, 07:39:00 PM
I think it would help to make each cell more likely to die out. Even if the fire is still growing, on average, then there could be a chance of passages appearing through it.

Hm, nice idea, guess I will try it, if it doesn't work I'll proceed with "option 3"  :)
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: flamingdragon on April 14, 2005, 04:41:56 AM
Quote from: zzboots on April 06, 2005, 05:32:10 AM
Seriously though in the old game fire was rarely played and now you aren't used to it.

  i played fire at CGD every game i played
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: ZAPTONE_Z on April 14, 2005, 07:49:24 AM
i used fire every chance i get

its so psycholgical
really fucks with your opponents
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: BladeSabre on April 14, 2005, 02:07:29 PM
Maybe it was less significant in the old game because it didn't grow so fast.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: dark_rock on April 14, 2005, 05:03:44 PM
I also think that fire is given to players in their board more often than in the real game.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: ZAPTONE_Z on April 14, 2005, 05:45:43 PM
i doubt that
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: BladeSabre on April 14, 2005, 07:45:00 PM
It's possible.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: BlitzJoker on April 14, 2005, 09:51:56 PM
Quote from: dark_rock on April 14, 2005, 05:03:44 PM
I also think that fire is given to players in their board more often than in the real game.

It is the same probability as everything else, which is the wasy CGD worked. You must also remember that not all the items are implemented so you have a higher probability to get everything for the time being.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: ultswordsman on April 29, 2005, 11:09:57 PM
i like #3 its better if fire kills its creater because then they will have to think when to use it and where  because  they will have to make it start far away from them  so id say make it #3
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: matlu on May 07, 2005, 01:59:56 PM
I just uploaded new version, and I changed the fire a bit.

Probably some people would not like it, but my opinions & requirements are:

1. I don't want fire to be "ultimate weapon". I don't think that anybody should expect it to kill the enemy commander. I want it to be a device, which creates some kind of wall, protecting you (for some time!) and giving you time to build army.
2. I don't want the fire to be able to cover whole screen.

So I tried to change the fire according to these requirement. What I did, is:
- each fire cell has 10% probablility to die out (each turn)
- fire will start spreading quite fast (little bit faster than before)
- its speed strongly depends on its size. The bigger the fire gets, the slower it spreads. At some point it stops spreading (because "die-out-rate" will at some point equal "spread-rate"). But it will still keep moving&changing.

- I spent long time trying to set good parameters, but it is very difficult. It is possible that you will not like it. It is possible that I will change it again.
- REMEMBER, that it still greatly depends on luck. You may have quite fast fire in one game, and slower in other game
- REMEMBER, that if your commander, monster or building stands next to fire, it is probably slowing it down - because the field to which the fire spreads is selected randomly, and if it is occupied then nothing happens, the fire won't spread this turn. But it also depends on luck, of course.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: BlitzJoker on May 07, 2005, 08:05:55 PM
Matlu, I think you did the best that could be done to solve the problem. This is definatly fine with me. Good work!
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: Bakster on May 15, 2005, 03:13:23 PM
Although I have only played this game for 2 hours most, I think the fire spreads way too quickly.

I have played opponents that use a combo of fire and alien goo. Before long, in about 5 turns, it quickly forms a 'wall' between you and your opponent. This means that it is hard to get through, and it will likely result in a draw. This happened in all of the games that fire/alien goo was used.

Even though the fire may 'die out', it takes a long time to do so, and I don't know if the alien goo dies out or not.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: SiR gUt on May 21, 2005, 11:43:37 AM
no i think the fire and goo spread prefectly. I like how those 2 work. Matlu i think you should leave those alone
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: HellsRage666 on May 23, 2005, 06:24:30 AM
 :'( Dont mess with the fire and goo. It's so useful un sticky situations, it helps sooo much when ur in trouble and need to get away. Plz plz plz plz dont do anything to any of it, it's perfect the way it is!
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: flamingdragon on March 26, 2010, 09:52:01 PM
Quote from: matlu on March 27, 2005, 12:56:21 PM
Here is how fire exactly works (currently):

- At the end of each beam-down phase, do following for EACH field with fire on the board:
- generate random number in range 1-12. (I will reffer to this number as "R")
- *IF*  R >= 1 AND R <= 7  than fire spreads to some adjacent field (there are 7 adjacent fields) . If it's not possible for some reason (there is 'friendly' monster, or building, or the field is out of board) than do nothing
- *IF*  R = 8  then this fire cell dies out
- *IF* any other number, then do nothing

- there is special check, to prevent the fire from dying out completely

It is clear, that fire speed is heavily influented by this random number range (1-12). I experimented with it a bit, but this speed seemed to me best.



Am I missing something or is there not 8 adjacent fields? I don't see how this big an error could go unnoticed...
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: matlu on April 04, 2010, 03:35:01 PM
right, there are 8 fields :) So it probably doesn't work exactly that way :) I will check it after Easter.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: flamingdragon on April 05, 2010, 04:01:30 AM
Ah, well thanks. The server also seems to be down at the moment, fixing that would be nice.  :)
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: matlu on April 09, 2010, 04:57:51 PM
So there is actually quite strange formula:

- for each fire cell a random number is generated with range from 0 to 9, if the number is 0 the cell dies out. The last fire cell never dies out
- another random number is generated with range from 0 to (11 + total_fire_cells/2). If the number is from 0 to 7 then the fire spreads to according nearby cell, otherwise it doesn't spread.

This 11 + total_fire_cells / 2 upper limit makes the fire spread slower when it gets bigger. I probably had some reason to make it this way, likely to prevent the fire from covering whole board rapidly.
Title: Re: Change fire, it's wrong
Post by: Dodger on April 21, 2010, 10:57:51 AM
Like goo does.