Alright, here are my ideas for the game. Please give opinions, and so on.
Firstly, new units. These would add a little bit of variety for those of us who were playing this game 8 years ago. Not so many as to undermine the brilliant gameplay... just enough to keep it fresh. Here are my favourite ideas.
Psi-King: This game sorely lacks a high level neutral unit, one which is only really feasible as a hologram and so has to be used when it will do most damage. It would also increase the weak psi-family. Stats would be
Str: 9
Def: 9
Movement: 3
Range: 4
Range Str: 5
Or similar. If this were approved, I would provide graphics within 2 days.
Paralyse: Range of 5, neutral alignment, cast range of 5. Paralyses an enemy unit for a random amount of turns (the same as however long a fort lasts, say, or slightly less.) Makes its movement 0, so, turret style, it can attack anything within range but NOT move. Until it wears off. Success should be about the same as for disintegrate. This would make for some tense moments.
I also loved the previously suggested ideas of
a.) Swap: Swaps a random card from your menu for the opponant's menu.
b.) Super Beacons: Makes 3 beacons, which give 2 new cards, not 1.
Anyway, those would be sufficient to freshen the game up a tad.
My other, most crucial suggestion, would open the game up to a market it overlooks; team players. While hard to program, it would justify it. Let people choose a team colour at the beginning of the match (amount of teams either 2, 3, or 4 I guess.) You can't attack team units, obviously, and they won't obstruct you as enemy units do by forcing you into combat. At the end of the game the points are divided between those on the winning team. They all get the 2 points they originally staked, and the enemy team player's points are divided. So, for example, if it was 2 on 2, the winning 2 would get 4 each. If it were 2 on 4, the 4 would get 1 each. This would drastically improve the game, in my view, allowing for more sophisticated gameplay.
Please post opinions of these options. Not random flaming, if you dislike them, please state a reason. Thanks for reading. :)
Oh, also, I think we should rename the Psi-Warrior Psi-Knight. This would disassociate us more from the original game, would take 10 seconds, it's a better name anyway, and fits better with Lord, regardless of whether or not the King idea is used. :O
I still think we should put a coke vending machine the lobby ;)
Dodger, before you even post. No one cares for your opinion :P
Wow...I actually really like those ideas. :-\ Maybe there is something wrong with me...
Apart from the two old ones (swap and super beacons) I agree :)
lol dodger, you're such an ass. You modified that post just because of what I wrote.
No I didn't. I wrote it. Clicked post, saw that you posted before me. Ignored you, clicked post again.
I seriously would like a new neutral monster.
Well, that's a better initial response than I expected. For the record, I'm also trying to get the original graphic replacements worked on to fix that problem, so making a Psi-King graphic isn't taking any graphic artist's attention away from that problem. :P
You are a spriter?
Matlu has said he doesn't mind about the replacement of the last few graphics.
Haha. My most advanced graphics program is Paint, and I suck at it. We just have about 5 spriters within the clan, and I know quite a few others outside of it who are happy to do small jobs like this. One of them is working on this as I post. :)
Paint is the best.
Meh, I still suck at it. :P
Moderation: For the Psi King, stats should be
Str: 9
Def: 8
Speed: Same as posted earlier
% Chance: 10
Alignment: Neutral
Resistence: 5 or 6
Not entirely sure on these ones. :O
Boost it's resistance, the psi's have very high resistance.
Well, how about 7 or 8 then? God I'm so fickle. Originally I was going to have it high, then the Guest convinced me that having it low was the only way to prevent a beamed one from being indestructible. But... thinking about it, a tentacle, cyborg, mutant, pred, spider, queen or mech warrior would have a fair chance, if they were real or beamed down, against it. There's also the option of fire, goo, etc, or simply taking out it's commaner before it does too much damage. And this is only something that will happen 1 out of 10 times people try to beam. I suggest 7 resistance. :O. Any thoughts? Btw, sprite should be done within 24 hours, I'll post it here to see what you all think of it.
7 should be okay.
Remember the three sprite phases. And a dead phase.
Oh I will. I'll probably just have Iron Sabre (the guy working on it) do a single frame first, it's quick to animate but I've disproved like 4 of his attempts so far, because they simple didn't look hard enough. When there's one I'm satisfied with I'll post it here. If popular he can animate it in like 10 mins if required. As to the dead body, just a mournful crown perched atop a psi-lord's corpse? ;) I'm on cw if you wish to play atm Dodger btw.
Ok, I just realised I have 3 other things I feel this game would benefit from which would be easy, particularly the first.
1.) Decrease Force Armour to 30%
Force armour has always been too easy to use for it's usefulness.
2.) Stop "dupli-units" in the same hand.
By this I mean stop allowing force shield to be an option in the same hand as force armour, and stop allowing alien goo to be in the same hand as fire.
3.) Goo vs Fire
Fire should be able to burn over goo. Similarly, goo should be able to quench fire. So simply change the game to allow them to move over each other instead of blocking each other. Seeing a fire vs goo battle develop would be entertaining. :)
Please comment back. If you don't like some but do like others, don't blast me, just offer criticism on some and flattery on others. :P
Psy-King is a great idea. (I still think you should go with Psy-Duck :P). There really isn't anything worthy in the nuetral alignment. But what about percentage to beam down? There wouldn't be any way to increase its percentage. And you couldn't make a strong unit such as that anything above 30%. The only way I know to fix this would be to add a lot of new neutral units, and make its alighment settings upgradeable just like alien and mech. But man would that take a ton of work!
As far as not being able to have fire/slime in the same game, i'm not so keen on that idea. Perhaps modify where if you have fire or slime, the percentage chance to successfully use the other actually DECREASES to 40 or 50%. But its just nice to have both fire and slime.
Since I can't edit the above post..
I didn't see before that it had a ranged attack on it. I overlooked that somehow. With that new information I'd say that the percentage could stay low and still be a great unit.
Quote from: StarSabre on March 23, 2006, 11:40:42 AM
3.) Goo vs Fire
Fire should be able to burn over goo. Similarly, goo should be able to quench fire. So simply change the game to allow them to move over each other instead of blocking each other. Seeing a fire vs goo battle develop would be entertaining. :)
Please comment back. If you don't like some but do like others, don't blast me, just offer criticism on some and flattery on others. :P
I agree with this, but not the others.
Sorry I can't play, my computer is broken. I'm at school at the moment, where Java is blocked by their firewall.
Lol ok. The 2nd one was true of the old cw, I think, though I may be mistaken.
Final... We are not, I repeat not, calling the new unit, should Matlu be gracious enough to make one based off this idea, Psyduck. :/
As to the "school" explanation
Any excuse not to get thrashed, eh. Tsk. ;)
Kiddin'. :P
I like the psi-king idea. Looking forward to seeing the graphic.
But I still think resistance should be 5 and beam down probability should be no more than 10%. I also think range strenght should be lowered from 5 to 4 and range distance should be no more than 4 (I would like 3 however).
hmmmm star sabre stealing my ideaS!! now im mad
new units - im not too sure about whether thats a good idead though i love the name Psyduck
also its not true you havent got anything neutral worth beaming down, what about cyborg.
teams - great idea, would make this game a lot more interesting also more fun
is it really hard to implement?
Quote from: The_Guest on March 24, 2006, 05:12:50 PM
I like the psi-king idea. Looking forward to seeing the graphic.
But I still think resistance should be 5 and beam down probability should be no more than 10%. I also think range strenght should be lowered from 5 to 4 and range distance should be no more than 4 (I would like 3 however).
*agrees with Guest* Resistance should stay high, all of the psi's have high res.
I've always agreed re the 10% thing. However, the great range compensates for the lack of alignment changes. Btw, dodger, I'm confused, you agree with guest, but disagree on the fact that its resistance should be lowered? Personally I'm thinking (and I agree we should perfect these, so please criticise or modify as you wish...
Name: Psi King
Strength: 9
Defence: 7
Movement: 3
Resistance: 7
Range: 4
Range Strength: 5
Beam Down Probability: 10%
Alignment: Neutral
Name: Marshmallow Master
Strength: 9
Defence: 6
Movement: 3
Resistance: 5
Range: 4
Range Strength: 4
Beam Down Probability: 10%
Alignment: Neutral
My thoughts... (name is obviously a joke)
I'm really concerned about the range... think of an in-game situtation.
2 player game, you are 8 spaces away from your opponents commander. Possible options to kill next turn is currently only teleport. With addition of this monster, you take no risk (and opponent thinking of holodetecting it from 8 spaces away is very slim) and you can holo it down and kill the commander with a 50% chance. Too powerful.
Just my opinions, the more I think about the real life applications of this the more it makes me opposed to it. Also, it throws the balance off the game unless you add a defensive move.
I appreciate your concern but I would like to point out that laser robot can do the same with only a 13% less chance of killing and is a 60% beam down. Moreover, they have only to put a single unit in front of their commander to prevent the range or to be in a transport, both of which is highly possible. However, I am fine with it being lowered to 4 if this is the popular opinion.
Lower range strength to 4.
Everything else Star said is great. :)
Ok, ok. Final stats (unless anyone else complains) and current image (unless you guys don't like!??!) are here...
Name: Psi King
Strength: 9
Defence: 7
Movement: 3
Resistance: 7
Range: 4
Range Strength: 5
Beam Down Probability: 10%
Alignment: Neutral
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/L4NCEUK/Other%20Stuff/Psi-King.gif)
Unsure how to edit image speed. It can be completely reworked if you guys wish...
Oh, and here's it's corpse graphic.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/L4NCEUK/Other%20Stuff/Psi4.jpg)
Hope you like :)
-Kicks Self- Make that Range Power of 4
you dont have to i came up with a defensive move
invincibility 50% at all times if works your invincible against everything 1 turn
and also maybe i was thinking we could add weaknesses for instance you got your psi king if you have psi lord and psi warrior on the field you can use them to destroy king easily because a king is nothing with his followers and maybe if guests marshmallow creature gets to close to a fire it melts and dies etc.
Increase the chance to 20% or 30%. It's neutral, the alignment will never increase for it, so give it a slight chance of being beamed...
or move defence down to 6 (so commander can take him out with upgrade) and increase probability to 50%?
I don't know if this is possible or not, but if it is why not make him 20% beamable and if you beam psi-lord it ats 20% chance of him being beamed and psi-warrior adds 10% chance.
Quote from: the_slayer on March 25, 2006, 04:18:41 PM
you dont have to i came up with a defensive move
invincibility  50% at all times if works your invincible against everything 1 turn
If this happens then I quit.
But I think I agree with Bakster about the % up a fraction,
Neutral can't be killed by EP or Virus though...makes a beamed one pretty hard to kill.
Totally forgot about the graphic ;D
It looks okay, my computer is fixed now so I can have a go if you like. :)
Having the frames posted would be nice? :P
Grrr...Who the hell uses photoshop for making sprites?
It's been so heavily shaded and toned it will be a nightmare for anyone to rework.
Tell your graphics guy to use a proper program next time... :(
Nice quad post from Dodger...
Stop multiposting
you fucking
idiotic
multiposter!
:-\ The more and more I keep thinking about it, the more I am opposed. Unless you can add a good defensive move to balance it out, I will stay opposed to this.
Ah hah! I bet you never thought you would be apposed and I wouldn't :D
It needs low percentage beam (10% or 20%), low move speed (3), str 4 range.
It's not that great. It has low defense, and I think that attack should probably only be 8 instead of 9.
Sorry, another double post. I edited the King.
I edited out all the stupid photoshop shading, made the colours more like the other psi's.
Also changed some colours around, and added an animation for the sword.
What do you think?
Just so we're clear, they used paint, not photoshop, for the sprite. The shading was done by hand. :P I'm fine with the revised sprite though, and I suppose I'm ok with the 20% beam. However, not 30%, please. The stats I suggest therefore are:
Name: Psi King
Strength: 9
Defence: 7
Movement: 3
Resistance: 7
Range: 4
Range Strength: 4
Beam Down Probability: 20%
Alignment: Neutral
I am not averse to lowering the range strength to 3, it's your guy's call :O.
well no cause a predator would smash it cause they have same stats so it needs a nice high range i still recomend 5 range.
Name: Psi King
Strength: 9
Defence: 6
Movement: 3
Resistance: 7
Range: 4
Range Strength: 4
Beam Down Probability: 20%
Alignment: Neutral
Is the revised list. Pred's would be easier to take down than this. Let me know what you guys think. Consider the practical implications of this unit in game before you answer. Thanks for help with graphics Dodger :O
Quote from: StarSabre on March 25, 2006, 08:51:18 PM
Just so we're clear, they used paint, not photoshop, for the sprite. The shading was done by hand. :P
I totally don't believe you :D Your spriters are lying! It had purple and green and blue in it, why would anyone put random colours in?
And the face was made of like 6 different colours..mine was only two. Reeks of photoshop shading. :) Oh well no worries.
I prefer it with defence 7. Def 6 is too low.
Quote from: StarSabre link=topic=955.msg17223#msg17223
Thanks for help with graphics Dodger :O
That's okay, I might try again with the sword animation. It kind of looks like it's just pivoting in his hand rather than his hand moving...What do you think?
I haven't posted on this topic yet so I'll give my opinion...
Personally I'm against adding any more creatures, not that I think matlu would implement them anyway but I think it would change the game in more ways than anticipated...
This creature would just be another thing to throw at ur opponent during a 1 on 1 game, making 1 on 1's even more of a holo battle than they are now...which is why I don't like them in the first place.
Plus, since it's neutral, it's practically pointless to wait on it...just try to beam it first turn...you may get lucky...and with 7 resistance and no virus or pulse this thing would be nasty. So if this thing does get implemented it should be 10%, or else it would dominate with 9 strength, kind of like a random beam of any other strong creature in the beginning.
Why would anyone wait to try to beam this thing later...its percentage will never change. I always try to beam my cyborgs right from the beginning and hope I get lucky...if I don't oh well. This is what I think will happen with this creature...and it will be too dominant.
There's my opinion...remember it's just an opinion...no need to flame it.
Mathwiz, let me try to change your mind.
"Personally I'm against adding any more creatures, not that I think matlu would implement them anyway but I think it would change the game in more ways than anticipated..."
Matlu might consider anything which the playerbase says it wants, hopefully. If not I've wasted my time but I don't really mind. I'm not convinced he'll add it but it's irrelevent atm... this thread is only to show whether or not we actually WANT it. If so, then we'll deal with him adding it. As to it changing the game in more ways than anticipated...
a.) So did units like the B-Mech and Alien Queen, imagine the game without them? Not all changes are bad.
b.) It could always be taken out if it screwed up the game, which is highly unlikely. It might, on the other hand, make it more fun/tactical. I don't see why we couldn't test it before reaching a final decision.
"This creature would just be another thing to throw at ur opponent during a 1 on 1 game, making 1 on 1's even more of a holo battle than they are now...which is why I don't like them in the first place."
If you're going to holo, you're going to holo. It's not like people don't have enough stuff to do it if they're going to anyway. Counter this as you would any other holo.
"Plus, since it's neutral, it's practically pointless to wait on it...just try to beam it first turn...you may get lucky...and with 7 resistance and no virus or pulse this thing would be nasty. So if this thing does get implemented it should be 10%, or else it would dominate with 9 strength, kind of like a random beam of any other strong creature in the beginning."
7 resistance, yes, but did you see it's defence? Practically any mid to high unit can 1 hit it. I'm happy with 10% though, if other people are. As to waiting on it... true, there'd be no reason to wait to beam, but you might save it in case you need it as a holo. The choice would not be when to beam, it would be to beam or holo.
"There's my opinion...remember it's just an opinion...no need to flame it. "
Wouldn't do so, please respond to mine the same way :O
Just so we're clear, they used paint, not photoshop, for the sprite. The shading was done by hand.
"I totally don't believe you Your spriters are lying! It had purple and green and blue in it, why would anyone put random colours in?
And the face was made of like 6 different colours..mine was only two. Reeks of photoshop shading. Oh well no worries.
I prefer it with defence 7. Def 6 is too low. "
It was a bmp, they sent me the four frames. When I switched it to gif for the animation it screwed up the colours a little :/. Seriously, it was paint. I can show you the original bmps if you want.
As to Defence 6, sometimes I see what people are saying about the unit being too uber. So I thought it'd be interesting to see a high unit in the game with relatively low defence. That way you can't just charge blindly in war mech style, you'd have to make sure it didn't take on more than it could chew and leave itself open to say... a tent or cyborg. Would add a more tactical aspect to the gameplay involving this unit IMO.
Bear in mind before you answer the objections you guys would have to some of the following if they weren't already in the game
Teleport
BattleMech and Alien Queen
Force Armour
Jetpack
Fire and Alien Goo
Quote from: MathWiz20 on March 25, 2006, 11:22:50 PM
Why would anyone wait to try to beam this thing later...its percentage will never change. I always try to beam my cyborgs right from the beginning and hope I get lucky...if I don't oh well. This is what I think will happen with this creature...and it will be too dominant.
You
could do that with any strong creature. I don't think any experienced players would beam straight away, far better to see how the game pans out, see if you will need it as a holo or not.
QuoteIt was a bmp, they sent me the four frames. When I switched it to gif for the animation it screwed up the colours a little :/. Seriously, it was paint. I can show you the original bmps if you want.
Hehe okay then ;D, changing to gif using an animator shouldn't have messed up the colours though. Doesn't do that for me.
I think it is a good idea. Â I just think it is too WEAK.
It would have a 10 or 20% chance of beaming. Â Those aren't great odds. Â Therefore the main way it could be used is by holoing which it could only be in for one turn. Â For one of the better units it is pretty weak. Â Especially because it is MUCH harder to get one than a mech, spideroid, pred, or alien queen. Â Tech can get high VERY quickly, same with life just less used. Â This makes beaming spideroids and mechs so much easier to beamed (I have beamed a bunch of them around 70-90%). Â This is not possible with a neutral unit. Â
Basically they could only use the Psy King for one turn, with this turn it should be more powerful. Â Or we could just make it easier to beam and maybe some sort of defense unit against neutral units.
Nobody commented on my idea that by successfully beaming a psy lord or warrior it increases the chance of beaming the psy king.
Quote from: AgileSabre on March 26, 2006, 12:23:59 AM
I think it is a good idea. I just think it is too WEAK.
I disagree. It has str 9, which is fine for
one turn.
Quote from: AgileSabre on March 26, 2006, 12:23:59 AM
Nobody commented on my idea that by successfully beaming a psy lord or warrior it increases the chance of beaming the psy king.
I don't think it's a good idea.
Sounds good. The Psi's really are under represented. I was wondering why they even existed with so few of them.
You can beam any good unit, as Dodger rightly said, on the same percentages or higher. Sure it's invunerable to pulse and virus... but it can't be made easier to beam and has weak def. The stats are fine as they are. On a seperate note, I hate my connection! I had just played a brilliant game and had a 90% chance of killing the other guy (I had a cyborg, hover tank and light sabre about to attack his unshielded commander) when I got a conn loss. I managed to sign back in and I was dead. This saddens me. :/
Anyhow, when we have say... 10 people in favour I'll email this idea to Matlu. Just so we're clear, the idea is to add the Psi-King with the most recently suggested stats and also to change the name of the Psi-Warrior to Psi-Knight. :)
I wouldn't mind if they added 100 new creatures or not, it wouldnt change my style of gameplay at all. I like the idea and I have had a lot of ideas up my sleeve aswell. ANYWAY I still say somehow matlu should make this board bigger but I don't think that's gonna happen. The only thing I am wondering is, is each of the spaceships you beam from cards balanced equally? I am sometimes stuck in games where my best thing is a tank and my second best is an alien, yet my opponent has one of the best hands you can get. I dont really mind it, I just been curious for a long time..
I can't confirm this, but I believe that it used to be (in GD) that each unit had points based on how good it was, and that they all added together to form your hand value, which would equal your opponant's hand value. Personally I prefer that system. Anyway thanks for your support. :)
Quote from: StarSabre on March 26, 2006, 03:44:56 AM
I can't confirm this, but I believe that it used to be (in GD) that each unit had points based on how good it was, and that they all added together to form your hand value, which would equal your opponant's hand value. Personally I prefer that system. Anyway thanks for your support. :)
I don't like or agree with this. You are trying to make too many changes :-\
BTW, I'll give my final thoughts on this monster only if matlu approves of it. It feels like a waste of time responding to all this when none of it has even been looked at by him.
Woah there guest. I wasn't suggesting any change be made to hand value system or how units are given out. I was just answering gut's question. Ok, well, if you abstain from judgement, I don't think anyone's actually been negative about the unit yet, so hopefully Matlu will at least try it. :)
I wasn't trying to make changes, it has just been on my mind for awhile.
Same here Guest, I was just responding to
"The only thing I am wondering is, is each of the spaceships you beam from cards balanced equally? I am sometimes stuck in games where my best thing is a tank and my second best is an alien, yet my opponent has one of the best hands you can get. I dont really mind it, I just been curious for a long time.. "
There is a quote button ya know ::) :P
I don't like change. :(
It wasn't a suggested change, it was answering a question from Gut. :O
I know.
Oh. What did you refer to then? Or was it a general comment? :P
General comment. I like pie.
I lost all respect for you after seeing your shameless echo of The_Guest's post on my "Hey" topic in General Discussion.
Shameless!
But I do like pie :-[
And the Guest looks like a horse in a man suit.
Now you're quoting your own signature and passing it off as your own work! Hmph.
People say that this new monster will be too powerful if beamed.
Guess what? So will Mech, Pred, Queen, Spider, and perhaps Tent.
Let's just remove all those monsters because they are too dominant! Hell, let's remove every monster that has 5 str or higher because they are too dominant!
::) ::) ::)
Quote from: StarSabre on March 26, 2006, 01:08:34 PM
Now you're quoting your own signature and passing it off as your own work! Hmph.
stfu noob! ;)
I don't think it's too powerful. It's fine.
::Sigh::
Let me explain this one last time for those who think that mechs, queens, etc. are too powerful.
Battle Mech has a perfect balance. It can be easily mutated, hypnoed, pulsed.
Queen can be easily mutated, virused, hypnoed.
Pred can be easily mutated, virused, and disintegrated.
Tent can be easily mutated, virused, and it has a major disadvantage with only one movement point.
Spider can be easily electropulsed and mutated.
Of all these creatures, I think spider is the best. However, if one does have a real spider, chances are it was beamed on a high tech alignment. If thats the case, electro has a great chance to work, plus someone else might be able to beam a spider/mech to counteract it.
One of the biggest reasons I am opposed to this is because of the fact that it is neutral, so if someone was to get a lucky beam on this monster, they have pretty much won the game (Yes, I understand its not over till its over, but you are at a big disadvantage is someone beams this).
Let me explain why none of these have reasonable chances of working against this psi-king. The main reason is because of its unreasonably high resistance of 7.
Electro and Virus are useless against it, there goes two of the best defensive moves.
Mutate has a 30% chance of working, you may as well try to beam your own psi-king.
Disrupter has stint of 4, plus resistance check with 20% bonus on defence, so the initial probability of it working is 10%, then it needs to succeed a 19% chance (the actual attack) so disrupter has a 1.9% chance of working.
Disintegrater is similar, it needs to succeed the initial 10% chance, then a 50% chance, so it has a 5% chance of working.
Fire and goo both has a 11% chance of working on it
Now you see how strong this monster really is in all actual applications? I would say some more, but only if you guys still disagree with me...
/rant :-\ ::)
Guest I couldn't have said it better...that's exactly my argument sabre...lol I just wish I could have said that...maybe I was too lazy ;)
Oh...and dodger...I feel I have the right to call myself an experienced player lol. You said experienced players would not try to beam this thing in the beginning. Well I would...and I'm experienced...and guest would too because that's why we're opposed to this creature.
Quote from: The_Guest on March 26, 2006, 06:24:23 PM
Mutate has a 30% chance of working, you may as well try to beam your own psi-king.
Is mutate effected by resistance?
QuoteOh...and dodger...I feel I have the right to call myself an experienced player lol. You said experienced players would not try to beam this thing in the beginning. Well I would...and I'm experienced...and guest would too because that's why we're opposed to this creature.
Boo, you smell. ;)
You guys all said you wanted a new creature :-\ This one looked the most promising, but I understand what The_Guest is saying. Something else would have to be changed. :(
Quote from: MathWiz20 on March 26, 2006, 06:47:49 PM
Oh...and dodger...I feel I have the right to call myself an experienced player lol. You said experienced players would not try to beam this thing in the beginning. Well I would...and I'm experienced...and guest would too because that's why we're opposed to this creature.
Ehm... maybe not.
I would probably use this creature (if ever implemented) as a holo most of the time.
I'd only attempt to beam it in desperate measures.
Quote from: The_Guest on March 26, 2006, 07:57:00 PM
Ehm... maybe not.
I would probably use this creature (if ever implemented) as a holo most of the time.
I'd only attempt to beam it in desperate measures.
That was what I said.
Let's say you tried that:
Situation 1: you're going first...a spider is breathing down your neck...you holo your new psi king...and your opponent uses holodetector...your psi king is now gone...and you're screwed...great job psi king...would have been better to try and beam it earlier...
Situation 2: now you're going second...a spider is still breathing down your neck...you holo your new psi king knowing that the opponent can't holo it for one turn...your opponent runs his spider far enough away that the spider laughs at the psi's 9 str...next turn your psi king gets holoed...and you're screwed...great job psi king...would have been better AGAIN to try and beat it earlier...
You have to take these things into account when you are planning ahead.
Your two examples are too specific to base an argument on.
I don't understand your logic then lol...what you just said seems to support my belief more than yours...planning ahead is the counter to using the psi as a holo...it supports my argument that you just try it out and hope it works...because then your plan works off of whether it succeeded or not.
I think you guys are thinking too much about this. You allow fire into the game when someone within 6 feet of you can get a kill before you have a chance to move, literally, by placing it 1 square away from you and getting lucky on odds not so dissimilar to beaming this King. Mathwiz, I knew the argument, I just disagreed with it on the basis that; B-Mech has a defence of 9, this has a def. of 6. This is a very specific and important weakness to b-mech of a different kind. Anyhow, I just think we should try this out for a while. If it's unpopular we can take it out, but if we never try any stuff out, we never stand any chance of the game getting better. Which would be sad. :O
Also, Math think of these scenarios;
You make transport on your first move. They beam a psi-king. You use a cyborg/tentacle and 1 hit it. Or you teleport out of range. Or you fort up. If you go second you can make a holo to block it. Then kill it with the holo.
I do agree that it might be too easy to beam for a neutral unit though. Maybe 10% instead. Personally I think 15% would be ideal but I don't think we can do that with the dice rolling system that's used for working out probabilities... I think. :O If it stays at 20 we can change the Str to 8? Well whatever... this isn't like the old established units, if we discover an imbalance in the stats we can just make a small alteration by popular consensus?
If you try to block the psi king with a holo the psi king could just kill the holo because it has 9 str. Or it could run away.
Of course you could go in a fortress...I'm not arguing with you there...but that only lasts so long. Same thing with teleport...but the psi king will catch up to you eventually.
A tentacle or cyborg could kill it...but giving them the opportunity to do so is not easy...the psi king is faster and stronger than them both...so it could just run away or kill them before they even have a chance...don't forget the psi king has range str of 4 so it could fire away...a lot of times you can block a predator or spider with slimes...this you can't.
Just because you can one-hit something doesn't mean it's weak...a mech could be one hit by a predator, or another mech, or even anything with at least 5 str, though the percentage isn't high, it's still possible. A skilled player would keep this thing far enough away from quick attacks, or if that's not possible, just destroy the quick attack before it ever had a chance of being launched.
If it kills the holo, which is either a 33.3% chance of a 50% chance, you'd have another round to try something else. I'm not saying it'd be easy to kill 1, I'm just saying that it's not impossible, and that it shouldn't be easy to kill a 20% beam. I don't think it would be much harder than killing a beamed mech (on neutral alignment.) And please respond to what I said about the fire.
What do you mean...if the psi king has 9 str, then the MINIMUM percentage to kill a blocking holo would be 50%, it would be more against any holo but a mech. I obviously dislike the psi king idea in general, but if implemented I say 10% beam, less than 9 str (maybe 8 or even 7), and maybe even no range, though the range I'm not as concerned with.
You want me to talk about fire and goo? Well for one, the psi king is strong enough to easily fight its way through goo, and if it gets eaten by goo then it's automatically real, which is even worse. Fire does not spread quickly, many times it will burn itself out (meaning disappear, or lose spaces covered in fire). There is obviously always a chance that if you put a fire next to a psi king it will burn, but that's the same low percentage chance as with any creature. I think it's 1 in 9 or 1 in 10 to happen, so I don't think fire or goo is an adequate defence.
Uh, no Math, I wanted you to respond to what I said about fire in a previous post, perhaps 3 posts ago. It might have helped if you'd read it. Basically I said "you're ok with the fact that in game if you get within 6 spaces of a commander you can cast fire next to him and get an instant kill with the same odds as there are for beaming a psi-king... which isn't a guaranteed kill, but not ok with this unit?"
As to blob swallowing it; you're assuming the blob is swallowing a holo, in which case why not just holo it? Also I suggested moving down to 8 str. Making a unit with the stats 7 6 and movement of 3 have a beam down of 10% is ridiculous to me, particularly when the beam down is never going to get more likely. 8 6 I could accept. But seriously, you need to be less rigid. The original game this was based on had hundreds of units and the option to just make more and add them in game. The gowers just chose some random ones for cyberwars. It's the battle formula that makes this game, not the individual monsters.
Ur right it is ridiculous...the whole idea I mean. Listen you have ur opinion and I have mine...we're not getting anywhere by arguing...so this is the last post I'm making on this thread...if it gets implemented I won't be happy...but it's not my call. You wanted opinions at the beginning of the thread...well it's a little hypocritical when I give you mine and you don't accept it for what it is.
That's all I have to say...flame me all you want because I won't post anymore and am therefore defenceless.
I have not flamed you once, kindly don't misrepresent me. I merely argued with your opinion by stating my own arguments. If that's flaming you, then your arguing with my opinion by stating your own arguments was equally flaming me. I don't mind criticism, I just dislike being misrepresented like that. Anyhow, thanks for your opinion, luckily the bulk of posters are still in favour...
ok honestly I dont wanna read everything, I guess it's cuz im to lazy or its just the same thing over and over.... but all you have to consider the defense 6, anything can basically kill it, a nice light sabre teleport kill would do the trick for first player. I also have had so many slime blobs kill cyborgs, I think that I can take down a psi king if it was thrown at me :D BRING IT ON PSI KING IM NOT NO WUSS!!!
Heh, that's the spirit.
I want to try it, just to see what happens. It doesn't have to be perminant.
Re Last Two Posts: Exactly. :P
Quote from: StarSabre on March 26, 2006, 11:59:26 PM
It's the battle formula that makes this game, not the individual monsters.
I like this quote, but I don't know if I agree. :-\
Wellll. *Votes* Does that count? I am too tired and lazy to look for anything else. Mature, eh?
I am in awe of your picture, Guest.
Quote from: Mistress on March 27, 2006, 04:46:12 AM
I am in awe of your picture, Guest.
I think it makes me look sexy, even sexier if I had butter all over me.
Guest, is is true Mistress sweet talked you out of her killing her and into killing someone else, and ended up winnng? -Rotfl- ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
::) I think she sweet talked you into posting that ???
... note: that is not me in the picture, I look much worse.
Nah, she was bragging about it earlier while I whupped her. :)
BTW, this better not be implemented, if it ever is, before I get back. >:(
-Gets out megaphone- IMPLEMENT BEFORE HE GETS BACK PLEEEEEEEEEASE! :O
I still don't see why you guys are so opposed to the Psi-King.
IT IS WEAKER THAN A PREDATOR AND IT IS HARDER TO BEAM. A Pred has higher def, can be beamed at 100%, has more movement. A King would have ranged to counter those weaknesses. But shouldnt something with 10% chance of being beamed be GOOD?
The only reason it is harder to kill at all is because you can't use virus/electro on it.
It wouldn't hurt to try it, would it?
Anyone wanna bother explaining, again, why I am opposed to this? Go read my long post a few posts back, that explains it all.
Guest, he understands why your objections, he just does not understand how they could be considered valid. I'm not flaming, just clarifying for Agile's sake. :)
soooooo how about them cowboys picking up T.O. I say cowboys super bowl champs this year
lol, sorry for the off-topicness but I must intercede... GO BUCCANEERS :)
This post is off topic also.
French emails are plactic covered. ???
Congratulations Guest and Mathwiz20...
"Hello,
at the moment I don't plan any changes for Cyber Battles, for two reasons
1. Idea of new units was already suggested and discussed before, and too many people disliked it
2. I sort of stopped developmnet of Cyber Battles and I'm concentrating on other things. I really have to time to work on CB anymore, and the player base is not big enough to make it worth the effort."
> Email.
:(
Quote from: The_Guest on March 26, 2006, 06:24:23 PM
Let me explain this one last time for those who think that mechs, queens, etc. are too powerful.
Battle Mech has a perfect balance. It can be easily mutated, hypnoed, pulsed.
Queen can be easily mutated, virused, hypnoed.
Pred can be easily mutated, virused, and disintegrated.
Tent can be easily mutated, virused, and it has a major disadvantage with only one movement point.
Spider can be easily electropulsed and mutated.
Mutate has a 30% chance of working, you may as well try to beam your own psi-king.
So it's suddenly easy to mutate every single strong monster apart from Psi-King? ::)
In an ideal world, you will rarely get all electropulse, virus, disintegrator, virus and hypnotize. You might have only electropulse and hypnotize and your opponent gets a real pred. Or you might have virus and mutate and he gets a real mech.
Also, the chance isn't that high of having a Psi-King in your hand in the first place, never mind the incredibly low chance of beaming it. 99 times out of 100 it will be used as a one-turn holo, which applies for every other big monster.
True, it may be too powerful, but getting it onto the board is the first problem. With 10-20%, you have little chance of getting a real one.
I was wondering where the logic was for that mutate thing.
You are for the Psi King then Bakster?
I AM THE KING?!!
THE KING YOU SAY!!
i am THE kIng OF ALL PSIIIIIISSS
*Psychics everyone to death*
RAWR
Quote from: StarSabre on March 27, 2006, 01:51:53 PM
Congratulations Guest and Mathwiz20...
:-*
Thank you very much. I rule, oh yeah. ;)
Dodger is sad :(
Quote from: Bakster on March 27, 2006, 09:16:45 PM
I AM THE KING?!!
THE KING YOU SAY!!
i am THE kIng OF ALL PSIIIIIISSS
*Psychics everyone to death*
RAWR
Bakster is so hilarious! I miss the guy...
:-[
I like this whole new character idea but I have a few complaints:
1. I agree with guest on the topic that this psiking is a good idea in theory but in real life use it onsz way too much to be practical. The character needs an obvious weakness.
2. Psi monsters are relatively weak creatures and you dont hear much about them being widely used as effective monsters so this Psiking thing would be a nice improvement to their forces and may even help boost the psi guys uses.
3. Maltu stated awhile back that he will not be putting any effort into changing or doing modifications on the game and is focusing more on the ever dominating Rook. It will be a challenge in itself to get him to go along with any new ideas concerning the Cyber Battles game.