QuoteYou know what? Scratch that. Just erase my account. I'm done with cyber wars. No matter how well im doing, I continually. Either with f'ed up odds when enemies attack, my own guys killing me, or ppl just teaming on me, I have no point to keep playing. If my account isnt deleted, I'll just let it expire. I am no longer having any fun with it.
Let me make some comments, though I'm sure that many people will disagree with me. I think that combat system is already well balanced, and (almost) nothing can be done about people teaming-up, but:
- I'm afraid the the guy is in fact right (on some points). This game is very fun to play, when you manage to make it to let's say 10th turn, and everybody has at least small army. Problem is, that some people use "tactics", which actually prevents you from having fun. I mean, making strong holograms from beginning, getting to oponent as soon as possible, and killing him in second or third turn with holo-spider. While it is allowed, I'm afraid it's not the way the game is MEANT to be played.
- this is not a problem of just THIS game. Same, or very similar problems exist in many totally unrelated games. And the people who run the game, are mostly concerned about it, and are trying to solve it.
- I know that people will not like it, but I think it would be good to make SOME restrictions/limits. Post ideas.
My "working" idea:
- on first turn, I could make available only actions, with (original) probability 90% and 100%. Other actions would be locked / greyed out on first turn. On second turn, also 80% actions would become available, and third turn also 70%, and so on, and so on. This should force the people to play it the way "it's meant to be played". Post your comments
- I know that many people will not like it
- Realize this is NOT cyberwars!
that would work but if u did that it would take until turn 9 to use b mech or queen so there for if the alignment is high or you need 1 of themm to kill maybe a tank and a hover tank then you couldnt have them
The curve seems a little low to me, would be cool to test out though.
That idea is a POS to me. Please excuse my language. But like u said my strategy is to get to the enemy A.S.A.P and finish him. If you make the game to where you cant get strong monsters until the 10th turn or whatever then that will make 1v1 or 1v1v1 a waste of time. And right now there arent enough players on DB to have 6 player matches fluently. So I think that this idea should wait or should only be limited to high number player games. Or you should be able to choose if you want to do that or not.
To he honest, i do'nt like that idea. I mean sometimes the opponent your playing could have a great hand and you could have a hand where your best creature is like a tank. So if the guy with the really bad hand finishes the game in 3 turns their opponent wont have a chance to beam down their pred, b-mech, queen, or spider. If you die on the 4th turn or something its your own fault, because if you go second you can just use holodetect. Going first or second has there strong points. All the rookies complain about this because they vs players who are good, and know how to end the game fast. So simply just vs players who aren't so good. Now i for one agree with what picolo said because i play the same way. Go very aggressive in the beginning before your opponent has time to build up a big army and kill them fast. Also i sometimes don't want to sit and play 20-30 minute games, I like to play short games so i have enough time to get like 15-20 games in an hour. Sometimes I vs noobs who have no idea what they are doing, and they just stall sometimes so i just like to kill them off fast.
I like this idea but not in 1v1 and 3 player games.Only in 4, 5, and 6 player games.
And i think if u put this into game u will need to make the screen bigger.
I have changed my mind. I beleive it should be done in all games.
If you decide to make it, make it a game option that the creator can choose, because I hate the idea.
It seems a lot of people want to make the game so there is no way to be good at it, and to leave it all up to percentages, so we can all be equal. If I can think of a better strategy then you and kill you before you kill me then I deserve to be able to use that strategy. When you get two good players and they go at it, games can last a long time because they know how to handle a full blown attack.
Lemme put my 2 cents in here.
It doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning. It should take more skill to beat your apponnent, then make it all based on %s. The more this game is being involved in percents, the more it makes it a "luck" game instead of a skill. This game was ment to be played the way that the people want to play it. No matter if its a kill in 2 moves, or 20. Its the Quality of your moves, not the quanitity.
:::::EDIT:::::
Also, matlu, can you please do something about this game 5 second game starting thing. I am (and im sure others witnissed it) growing quite tired of people coming into my game, and then leaving on the last second. Then I am in the game by myself. Then i have to click BACK on my browser and log in again. And they are doing it quite often. Can you make it so that if the room is 1 on 1, and your opponent leaves the room, it goes back to the lobby instead of going into the game. (Just how it was in Castle GamesDomain)
:::::EDIT 2::::::
And also, every like 1 minute of not touching anything in the Lobby window, it kicks you out to the LOG IN screen again. If you would make it so it doesnt do that, or atleast after like 5 minutes, that would be great.
Personally matlu, i dont like the idea of making the game work with turns. Some people have the stragedy of playing agressively. Personally i do, i always teleport next to my opponent and try and get rid of them fast. I dont think it would be right for you to make it so we cant holo queens or something til the 10th or whatever turn. And if you do, like they said, make it a game option. Also, I was wondering if you yourself will be participating in the tournaments Matlu. I was hoping you would becuase maybe If you participate then more will. Thanks.
while i would never do it...i think its a viable strat to holo down good things early
if that plan fails that player is pretty much doomed to lose the game if it becomes drawn out
Perhaps reduce the probability of holograms being summoned? OR make holograms weaker?
Quote from: Bakster on May 15, 2005, 03:28:24 PM
Perhaps reduce the probability of holograms being summoned? OR make holograms weaker?
The holograms have ALWAYS 100% probability. This is not going to change. Also making them weaker would not work.
I don't know Mat.
I think that the quick win should always be a viable strategy.
Just like in chess - when people become a little bit better at the game (as BJ said) - using that kind of tactic often just opens you up to a couterattack.
The only suggestion I could make would be perhaps to make sure that everybody has roughly even hands at the start of each match, with a good balance of defence/attack hands.
That way there's no excuse to fall for any kind of cheeky tactic if you know how to use your cards.
I have to say that I agree with zzboots' comment that the game is not yet complete without some of the defensive items mentioned. I think we should wait until those have been implemented before starting to mess about with the core game dynamics.
The game is still in development and it is wrong to criticise the "fairness" of it when it is not yet complete.
Also, the quick win strategy is part of what made the original cyber wars so much fun. If you are a good player there are almost always ways to counter, or at least anticipate, this kind of strategy (even in one on ones).
Please don't mess with the core game dynamics until all the items have been put in place!
Well if you're not a good player, you die real quick every game, and you learn nothing.
Practice Makes Perfect ;)
Quote from: Bakster on May 16, 2005, 06:58:58 PM
Well if you're not a good player, you die real quick every game, and you learn nothing.
You see how you died, you see patterns, you think of a counter.......
Quote from: zzboots on May 14, 2005, 08:54:53 PM
Chaos was never intended to be a long, drawn out game. The game is ment to be fast paced version of chess. Slowing things down just to make them "fair" will not improve the game.Â
I keep telling you that the game isn't complete until virus, electropulse, disrupter, and disintigrator are in the game. These are defensive items and will help balance things out.
i agree with ZZ. i hve been a victim of that "kill em fast" bulls**t, so i want somethign done about it. it's ment to have fun. those defensive items will help balance out the game, and that beaming curve will ruin the game. i vote no for beaming curve, and rally with ZZ about the defensive actions.
Look, I'll probably stop playing CB if this is put in...
Really, CB is a game of luck. You got to live with it. The whole fun of the game is beaming in a real flying slime first turn in a 4-player game, or holodetecting a spider in the same turn it was beamed in. That is real skill.
Basically, it's not worth upsetting a lot of people because of one whiny player. It's not like the points count for anything.
I wouldn't go that far. Let's recap...
It's a fundamental change.
Newbies want it, Oldskool don't.
This game is aimed to attract in new players.
But Oldskool should also be catered for, as this is their baby.
This change may work, it may not.
The only way to find out is if we try it.
& the final decision is Matlu's.
Once it's been taken, objective opinions only, no flaming or whinging.
QuoteThis change may work, it may not.
The only way to find out is if we try it.
Exactly. I guess I'll just give it a try, for few days. Don't freak out, if it proves wrong it will go away. Just.. give it a chance :)
(It will take some time to make it)
The whole fun of the game is beaming in a real flying slime first turn in a 4-player game, or holodetecting a spider in the same turn it was beamed in. That is real skill.
Actually no that is not skill. It's called luck. Playing the odds... taking guesses at what your opponent is planning. There are also little mind-games you can play to try to influence what your opponent will do, but even that sort of thing is still gambling. I mean I sure used to feel nifty when I did those kinds of things back in the day, but I recognize that it's neither skill nor actual strategy. I think that Matlu's proposed change would shift the game a little bit away from being a game of chance, and make it a little more strategic (or boring, I guess we'll see.) I don't have an opinion on whether it's a good change or not, but I think it's worth giving a try.
What change are we discussing?
Quote from: Parsley on May 17, 2005, 11:51:06 AM
It's a fundamental change.
Newbies want it, Oldskool don't.
Subsituting the label "Oldskool" with experience(because, essentially, that is the only difference between us and the new players) You will see the statement
"Newbies want it, Experienced Players don't." and it's true this feature would cater to new players......but you must think, what will happen when these new players become experienced? They will most likely see how bad and restricting of an idea it is, and leave the game.
Quote from: TheMcCool on May 17, 2005, 05:38:00 PM
The whole fun of the game is beaming in a real flying slime first turn in a 4-player game, or holodetecting a spider in the same turn it was beamed in. That is real skill.
Actually no that is not skill. It's called luck. Playing the odds... taking guesses at what your opponent is planning. There are also little mind-games you can play to try to influence what your opponent will do, but even that sort of thing is still gambling. I mean I sure used to feel nifty when I did those kinds of things back in the day, but I recognize that it's neither skill nor actual strategy. I think that Matlu's proposed change would shift the game a little bit away from being a game of chance, and make it a little more strategic (or boring, I guess we'll see.) I don't have an opinion on whether it's a good change or not, but I think it's worth giving a try.
Really, predicting an opponents actions and responding before they make them is the only skill I ever see in CB, except maybe knowing what to beam when, which is just fundamental. Basically, you have a good strategy, but it will almost always hinge on chance. If it didn't, it would be rather boring. I mean, really. So, in conclusion, collect your clovers and keep your salt verticle, kids.
O god Matlu please don't include beaming curve! A better idea would be a new
section of the site called tactics or something where advanced players could
talk about strategies and counter strategies. The noobies could read the
articles and learn how to deal with 1st turn rushing and stuff. For example:
build beacons, jeep, tank, fire fox, anything that could hide your commander so he doesn't get attacked directly on the second turn.
umm.... Who would give away their winning stratergies?
Possible alternatives (Not saying they're particularly good - just trying to throw something constructive into this string):
People get 3 (non-hologram) cards to play in their first turn.
That way they can set out an 'opening move'
People can play only 'defensive' cards on their first turn
A shorter beam down curve - perhaps 75-50-ALL
---------------------------
Note: I believe Matlu's idea could also work, I'm not trying to disparage it.
Quote from: flamingdragon on May 18, 2005, 04:41:06 AM
umm.... Who would give away their winning stratergies?
not your special ones, just normal basic ones. I would, anyway.