after playing for a while ive noticed a lot of odd things about the percentages.... i played cyber wars a lot at gamesdomain castle and was one of the top players... after playing in this ive noticed that a probe can just as easily, if not easier sometimes, kill a commander in 1 hit as a spideroid or predator... and 90% beamdowns seem to fail 90% of the time... whereas i seem to have no trouble beaming down 40 or 50%... the percentages in general seem to be messed up as just a few games ago i was killed first hit by a probe(1 strength) when i had force armour(8 defense)
- you are exaggerating a bit. The probe CANNOT kill a commander with force armour. There is no way.
- beaming down probability: well luck matters a lot. If something has 90% it MAY fail, and next turn something with 10% MAY succeed, it's just unlikely.
- combat system is probably a bit different as it was in odl cyberwars, but there is no way to find out how it was programmed, I tried to make it best possible. It was discussed here: http://www.duelboard.com/forum/index.php/topic,225.0.html
i am exaggerating a little bit and dont mean to sound like a sore loser but it is very possible for a probe to kill a commander with force armour... ive seen it happen or i wouldnt think it possible...
i understand that in the end its all a matter of luck but the luck favor seems to be the main point of this game, whereas cyberwars took a good amount of skill or a hell of a lot of luck
granted in cyberwars you could beam down 20% monsters at an actual rate of 50% which isnt very fair, but the way it is here i feel its way too much based on how lucky you are...
if you want i can try to contact andrew gower and ask him questions about how cyber wars was programmed and stuff like that? im not sure who programmed all of it but i know andrew was in charge of the castle...
Maybe you are just rusty and just maybe people have improved a little bit?
im definately rusty but skill has nothing to do with percentages...
Quote from: Adam on July 09, 2005, 04:45:13 PM
granted in cyberwars you could beam down 20% monsters at an actual rate of 50% which isnt very fair
Are you sure about that? It sounds VERY weird. Probability should change with alignment, and it really does, but at NEUTRAL alignment 20% monster should only have exactly 20% probability ::)
it says 20 but when you play a lot this game seems like its 10... and the stats of monsters dont seem to effect that much either... in the old cyber wars a 20% beam down worked a lot more than 20% of the time so maybe its just getting used to actual percentages... but i think its lowered in this one...
Quote from: Adam on July 11, 2005, 11:25:10 AM
it says 20 but when you play a lot this game seems like its 10... and the stats of monsters dont seem to effect that much either... in the old cyber wars a 20% beam down worked a lot more than 20% of the time so maybe its just getting used to actual percentages... but i think its lowered in this one...
Just because its 20% doesn't mean it's guaranteed to fail. If it worked a lot more than 1 fifth, then people were just lucky. It happens.
it works a lot less than 1 fifth is what im saying....
Stop trying to beam 20% monsters. Just because an action works 20 percent of the time does not mean that it is guaranteed to work one out of every five attempts. If you flip a coin 100 times, it is still possible to have it land heads 100 times in a row. It is just very unlikely. The only guarantees in probability are 0 and 100 percent.
the 20% is a low percent scenario... i get this stuff with 50 and 60 and sometimes even 90% beam downs...
Quote from: Adam on July 12, 2005, 04:31:16 AM
the 20% is a low percent scenario... i get this stuff with 50 and 60 and sometimes even 90% beam downs...
Again, nothing is guranteed. One person may beam all 90% every single time while you could fail it every single time. If a 90 worked every time then it would be 100 percent. ;)
thats the problem im getting at sorta... it seems like the percents are going like that... 1 person gets all the successes of percents and others get failure parts of percents... i makes it even in general so i could see how it could happen and i dont know if this is what it is a total percent throughout everyone rather than per beamdown but this is what it seems like...
The server has only one random number generator, and it is used for al players and all games currentlyin progress. It is said to be very good random number generator, and I cannot get "more random" source...
Also perhaps, that people are sending more holos than you realize.
Quote from: zzboots on July 13, 2005, 05:03:34 AM
Also perhaps, that people are sending more holos than you realize.
Doug, before saying something like this, keep into consideration a persons strategy. Suppose the alignment is tech 5 and you are scared someone will beam a spider or mech. The only way to put down a mech monster and not have the alignment go up is to put down a hologram. I, personnaly, have made hologram jeeps, drones, probes, hatchlings, you name it. Im not trying to flame you, honestly, but dont try and discourage someones playing style to suit yours.
If you're playing a newb and they summon a spider or queen or whatever, I always assume it is real.
Why, you ask?
Because newbs play the game, look at their hand and see a spider. They think "OMFGZ0R IT HAS LIEK T3H BEST STATZ!!!1!" and they try to beam it, whilst ignoring the percentage.
90% of noobs I've played have tried to beam spiders ;D
QuoteOn to the next matter, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say, "The only way to put down a mech monster and not have the alignment go up is to put down a hologram." Firstly, I don't think it matters if you beam or holo a creature. The alignment changes somewhat randomly, and will go up or down depending on certain factors (e.g. if all players beamed a technology creature, the technology alignment may very well go up; if someone selects tech, or life, 1 or 2, the alignment will likely change, etc).
The Gu3st is right. The alignment includes fractional values that you don't see.
There is no random factor at all: each action has a distinct predetermined effect.
And yes doug, i did quote the wrong person for reasons i do not know why. The correct quote was:
Quote from: Douglas_2085 on July 28, 2005, 04:13:03 AM
Anything can be a holo. The only exceptions are things that have a solid 100% chance of beaming. The only time those might be holograms are when new players are basically goofing off (the chances of that are quite unlikely, though).
sorry about that. But yes the factors are predetermined. If every signle player in the game uses only hologram and no power ups or alignment changers, then the aignment will stay neutral. Suppose a 6 player, I holo a mech, you holo a spider, bakster holos a drone :P, kxb holos a hover tank, Cdigital holos a hovership and ABC holos a laser bot. The alignment will stay neutral, there will be absolutely no change.
for every 2 monsters of the same type (mech or alien type i mean by this) the alignment will go up according to the kinds of monsters. Suppose a 4 player, I beam a drone, you beam a probe, abc beams a hovership, and cdigital beams a slime. The alignment should theoretically be Tech 1 because the slime and the hovership were not both of the same type. If everybody except me was to skip their next turn and i put on force armor the alignment would be tech 2. The force armor , for a lack of better words, compensates for the slime that was put down and fills in the missing mechanoid peice to increase the alignment. Just to clear that up for ya.
right, there is something like hidden fractional part (like BladeSabre said)
The_Guest is close, but not exactly right
When you right click an action in select-action screen you can see the alignment points of each action, it can be 0, Life(1), Life(2), Tech(1), Tech(2)
So each action can contribute up to 2 points. But it actually takes 3 points to see a change. So you have to succesful perform at least 2 Tech actions to actually change world alignment.
The exception from this rule are special alignemnent-change actions, which directly add 1 or 2 to world alignment.
<EDIT> to clarify it a bit more: there is *hidden* alignment value, which you don't see. The *visible* value is equl to *hidden* value divided by number 3.
So if you beam-down a jeep and probe (each of them is Tech(1) ), the actual hidden value will be 2. The visible value is still 0.
QuoteSo each action can contribute up to 2 points. But it actually takes 3 points to see a change. So you have to succesful perform at least 2 Tech actions to actually change world alignment.
The exception from this rule are special alignemnent-change actions, which directly add 1 or 2 to world alignment.
So, do the special alignment-change actions add 3 (or 6) points?
Quote from: BladeSabre on July 29, 2005, 03:55:05 PM
So, do the special alignment-change actions add 3 (or 6) points?
exactly. Special alegnment-change actions add 3 or 6 points, everything else adds (or substracts) 0, 1, or 2 points
iv e noticed that the alien hatchling and the alien both add 2 alien pts, but what creature on the mech side adds 2 pts?
you can right click an action to see it. Two tech points add:
tank, hovership, mech warrior, laser robot, hover tank, spideroid
Ok thanx. also, I was wondering, is it ever possible for every single person in a 6 player game to get 1 of them same thing (so that all six have say, hatchlings) becuase this was not possible on the old CW
Quote from: The_Gu3st on July 29, 2005, 07:01:25 PM
Ok thanx. also, I was wondering, is it ever possible for every single person in a 6 player game to get 1 of them same thing (so that all six have say, hatchlings) becuase this was not possible on the old CW
It sure WAS possible. There are only 55 distinct actions. You cannot give full hand to all players without repeating some actions.
actions WERE repeated but it was never in the way in which all 6 people had 1 item in common
yeah ive noticed that and as far as i can tell the hand layouts are on a random number generator, therefore yes it would be possible to have all 6 people get the same action....
also i dont really agree with it taking 3 *hidden* points to change the alignment once.. makes it a little hard to change the alignment and most of the time it stays neutral(almost all the time in 1 on 1 games or 3 player games)
If the points weren't hidden, then it would be possible to tell by looking at it whether someone had put down a holo.
yeah im not saying they shouldnt be hidden im saying 3 is too much... maybe 2 which would, yes, make it easier to count but a lot better for alignment to make a difference in 2 and 3 and sometimes 4 player games... the alignment stays neutral far too often when youre playing in low player games... it makes it a lot harder to have an actual strategy when you cant base it on the alignment, which is, or should be, a fairly big part of the game for strategists...
It's always been enough for me, and it's been ages since I've been in a game with more than 3 players.
Being a game a game based on chance, the alignment feature should be expected. I think the games charm comes from the fact that sometimes (most times) you feel helpless and the game controls you.
But when you do get things in your favour (tech 5 when you have a mech warrior), then it gives you the sense that a superior force (in this case not matlu) is looking after you ::)
Quotethen it gives you the sense that a superior force (in this case not matlu) is looking after you
There is no other supreme force but Matlu. Praise Matlu, and you will be rewarded  :D
hey anima you got a little brown something on your nose there :D
yeah praise matlu ;D
and yes it helps when it goes to tech 5 and you have a mech warrior but it never gets to tech 5 or alien 5 unless you have 5 or 6 players... ive noticed that strong monsters(spider, mech warrior, alien queen and pred) are only useful in big games where you have a chance of beaming them down real later in the game, or in small games getting close and making them holos and only having use for 1 turn... it doesnt seem like they get their full use due to the alignment rarely moving in small games
Quotebut it never gets to tech 5 or alien 5 unless you have 5 or 6 players
Yes it does.
It certainly does. I just played a 6 player and the highest we got was life 2.
wow... all this talk about sarcasm and now it took me a while to catch on that that was actually sarcasm... :o
yeah... ive never been in a game with less than 4 players where the alignment went past 2 for either alien or technology... not in this version at least... and ive also been in a game with 5 or 6 players where the alignment was neutral the entire time... so its kinda odd that you say the alignment changes all the time...
If you have 6 players, and between them they do roughly equal numbers of Tech and Life actions, then the alignment will stay near to Neutral. If you have 2 players and they both do mostly Tech actions, it can reach Tech 5 easily. Your strategy must just be different from mine.
I've played lots of 3-4 player games where the alignment has reached extremes of Life/Tech 9! Pred was 100%.
the problem is whenever i have mech warrior and spideroid all my other stuff is mixed low strength tech and mostly life which makes strategy=bad if possible... and then everyone wants to do life monsters so my mech and spider are only good for holos... generally in 2 or 3 player games people have different views of alignment so they try different alignments and it ends up staying neutral...
Thats simply the luck of the hand you get. It has nothing to do with odd percentages and alignment changes, but theres always ways around it.
im not talking about the odd percentages anymore... i already realized thats because of the random number generator :P
Okay, have this. I just failed:
70% Lightsabre
80% Force armour
70% Spider
80% Grabber
80% Psi
In a row :-[
What is the percentage of that happening?
30% * 20% * 30% * 20% * 20% = a very miniscule amount.
0.3*0.2*0.3*0.2*0.2 = 0.00072
Hmm so basically less than 1% chance. That is disturbingly low....but possible :D
1 in 720,000 ;D
Sounds like my luck.... :-[
Seriously something weird is going on....Is there a problem with the game matlu?
I killed CrazyHaze by destroying two beacons with my mount then killing him with it,....
more to the point, me and haze then both failed 80% spiders on the same turen, and all 6 def monsters got killed by weak monsters. We have both failed fire and goo (90%) about 5 times each in 5 games. There
Let me put it this way, there is something weird going on....
Oh and I havn't beamed a single 70% all day!!! I am totally serious!
Maybe the random number generator developed a personality
Lol acyually i know what you mean....something just happened that make me want t take it all back....i just killed a guy who had force armour with a disrupter...
That means i had to succeed resistance roll(dunno %), and then defence roll (like 2%)
I just died by a disrupter to Dodger, and i had force armor. That is bull.
^^ nvm, he posted it.^
lol ;)
everytime something weird happens im gonna add it to the list
well i got 4 b mechs from 4 beacons and 3 of them worked at 40 50 and 60% and others failed at like 90% ???
Quote from: Bakster on September 08, 2005, 05:50:21 PM
1 in 720,000 ;D
Im sorry Bakster, but your calculation is incorrect. Decimal to fraction doesnt work like that e.g. 50% = 0.5 = 1/2 not 1/5.
Soooo, its
1/1389 chance, which sounds more accurate. Correct me if im wrong..you're the one who is meant to be doing higher math ;)
0.5 does equal a half, but it also equals 5/10 which is a half.
0.01 = 1/100 right?
Ahh. I did make a mistake. 0.00072 = 72 in 100,000, which probably simplifies to whatever you said.
I've had 6 weeks off maths and education in general! Don't be so mean :'(
omg, I am unlucky...
Quote from: matlu on July 29, 2005, 02:54:16 PM
right, there is something like hidden fractional part (like BladeSabre said)
The_Guest is close, but not exactly right
When you right click an action in select-action screen you can see the alignment points of each action, it can be 0, Life(1), Life(2), Tech(1), Tech(2)
So each action can contribute up to 2 points. But it actually takes 3 points to see a change. So you have to succesful perform at least 2 Tech actions to actually change world alignment.
The exception from this rule are special alignemnent-change actions, which directly add 1 or 2 to world alignment.
<EDIT> to clarify it a bit more: there is *hidden* alignment value, which you don't see. The *visible* value is equl to *hidden* value divided by number 3.
So if you beam-down a jeep and probe (each of them is Tech(1) ), the actual hidden value will be 2. The visible value is still 0.
well ill explain what just happened to me which puts this in doubt.
i tried to put down a 100% spideroid at alignment 8 and it failed. the guy before me put down an eye. so the eye changed the alignment right? - not according to what you said as the eye's alignment is life(1) and cant change the alignment all by itself.. Well maybe someone put down a life creature before which was life(2) meaning only one thing like an eye was needed to decrease the alignment. wrong because every move previous to that had been a tech move - the eye was the first life move in the game. after my spideroid failed the 3rd player used jetpack. and hey presto after all 3 turns the alignment was still 8.
can you explain this to me. because after being killed by about 4 drones, 3 probes, 6 hoverships and a firefox, opponent's commander surviving spider,tentacle,sabre 3 times etc.etc. ..... i think this is the most stupid thing ive seen in this game.
It is possible that the tech 8 alignment was tech 8 with 0 tech upgrade points.
The eye would add one life point to the 0 tech points making it tech 7 with 2 tech points.
That lowers the chance to 90%, you failed the spider and the jetpack succeded once again adding one tech point to the previous tech 7 and 2 point. That makes 3 total points to increase the alignment.
my brain hurts now
ok guest ill buy into that, i hope matlu will reply aswell, thx.
Quote from: The_Gu3st on September 11, 2005, 08:19:09 PM
It is possible that the tech 8 alignment was tech 8 with 0 tech upgrade points.
The eye would add one life point to the 0 tech points making it tech 7 with 2 tech points.
That lowers the chance to 90%, you failed the spider and the jetpack succeded once again adding one tech point to the previous tech 7 and 2 point. That makes 3 total points to increase the alignment.
You explained it better than I could :P
If you beam a eye it cud change the alignment from tech 9 to tech 8, why not? just like to beam a creature. But to some people, in this game to them it is really easy to beam 20% stuff and some people may never b able to do it. Personally I think its really the same as the old cyber wars now. I think everyone just keeps thinking it's diff, so when something rare does happen often, you start thinking that the coding is all messed up. ITS ALL IN EVERYONES HEAD!
stfu
;D
Lol waylan, that made me chuckle.
Lmao Anima, that made me truely laugh.